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Water we going to say this time'? What factors were involved with the Waterloo Safe Water Soeiety's decision to pursue the nttoride question again, especially so soon after the last vote'? 7 There are a number of different factors, one of them was that we found that the data that was used by the pro-ttUO) group was interpreted in a false way so that they were grossly exaggerating the benefits of fluorida- tion, we think that had a great impact on people. The health ministry in Ontario had been involved by providing pro-fluoride pamphlets for the pro-fluoride campaign, using taxpayers money of course, and we had lodged a formal complaint with the Ombudsman of Ontario about that. And also, just the basic fact it (vote) was so very close. 313 votes out of l2.000 and that led us to believe that the situation could be reversed in another vote. Yes, I'd say we were expecting that kind of reaction. the city council so far has been not at all co-operative, and at that time when we went to council 1 made several suggestions how even though the council and our group disagree on fluoridation. how some co-operation would be possible and I suggested certain measures that could be taken with perhaps regional help to get more information to the public about fluoridation in an objective way. But I didn't get any response to that, so we were forced into this position which is somewhat of a confrontation, I guess you could put it. What was the total number of signatures that you estimated you handed II? We handed in 7,342 signatures. Cnn you give as a tteeera1 description of how this yegr's e-ttty for petitions has gone? 7 , - 7 Our group had a meeting this past winter and decided that we would try to get another vote on the issue as soon as possible so we went to city hall last spring to ask the council if they would voluntarily agree to put the question on the ballot in the upcoming municipal election. When they refused to do that we were forced to start another petition under the fluoridation Act and yesterday (Thursday) we handed in the result of that. over 7,300 signatures. ya- worited about peopie‘s genital reactidn, Le., once It's heel decided. let It bet in 1981. a plebiscite margin at 313 votes "partttqd the Waterloo Sate Water Society from its goal of halting the addition of ttuoruo. tthour drinking water supply. Undaunted by those results, the Society regrouped this year launching another Petition campaign to torce a plebiscite in conjunction with the November 8 municipal elections. in the following interview with Chronicle editor Rick Campbell, WSWS president Herbert Riedel indicates why the Society refused to stay down for the count, and why he thinks the results of this plebiscite could very easily be reversed. We've come across that to some extent, but not really very much. most people realized that due to the fact it was such a close decision. that it didn't really decide very much and even if you take it at its face value, you have a situation where you have somewhere around 51 per cent of the population telling 49 per cent what they should have in their drinking water, and I think the general feeling. it not conscidusly. at least uncon- sciously is that that isn't really fair. Will Increased voter turnout aid your campaign or bar- " We think it will aid our campaign. that was one of the problems with the vote last year was that there was only about encounter of the number of polling stations whereas there was a record turnout. They never had that many voters out in a municipal election before. I know this from older people, they don't always have transportation available and they might find it harder to go to polling stations which Isre further away and we have found that by far. most of the older residents of the city are very much opposed to fluoridation. No. not really. I think we had a very good safety cushion and the only thing that could happen would be that the people haven't been enumerated properly or have signed more than once, and I think that would be very minimal. . Jfas the city's reaction what you generally expect- When you! were reorganizing year campaign. were Do you have any worries about your list being vali- I!” the WSWS grown in either she or structure since Waterloo city clerk Ron Keeling (left). after being presented Thursday with a petition by Waterloo Safe Water Society president Herbert Riedel (right) and vice-president Jim Colley, indicates to Riedel it will be October " before it is officially determined that the petition contains enough valid signatures to force a plebiscite re the continued fluoridation of this city‘s drinking water supply. Keeling said the signatures will be fed into a computer, alphabetically assembled, and then matched against the official voter list for the November 8 municipal election. . Rich C-ttel' photo No, it's pretty much the same, we had close "to 200 Pittsburg trial in which thejudge also stated that he was members, we've been charging $5 membership fee and compenirigly convinced by the evidence that ftuorida- we haven't renewed that since the vote last year. We've tion was harmful. been getting more members as we go on, but no basic changes. In tho rpm-m met, than: has hool- newsnaner reports When your went door-to-door with your campaign did you focus on any particular aspect to aid people in their decision to sign or not to sign'? 7 We had some pamphlets that We bought from the National Fluoridation news in the United States that we handed out and we had a copy of an article about Ralph Nader's stand on the issue of fluoridation. Which I think meant very much to a lot of people because Ralph Nader was at one time pro-fluoridation and in this article he outlines why he changed his mind and the questions that he asked himself and the answers that he got to those questions. I think that had a lot of impact on a lot of people who were tending to take fluoridation for granted, which I think is the big problem with fluoridation, that so many people just take it for granted because it's been around for such a long time now. There’s been some question from trryr-mroruatioatists as to some of the facts on those pamphlets being unfounded. do your Fave any re_aettyt tq that'?, I wish they would say exactly what facts they were. What we do know is that some of the facts they 1pro-nuoridationistt0 were using are definitely un- founded. Oneof the things I found out after the vote last year was the data they used for making their claim about the reduction of tooth decay in Waterloo children from Dr. Glennie. the regional director of public dental health. I got the data from him after the vote and was able to check it and found out that their claims of 52 per cent less cavities among Waterloo children than in Kitchener children is just completely wrong and I talked to Dr. Glennie and Dr. Byers about it and they admitted to me they had made a mistake on that. In the past year. have there been any signtneataet revelations In the are: of ntroridated water and Its " feels? l'd say the major important development this year was the court case in Alton. Mi., in which the judge decided on the basis of extensive hearings on fhtorida- tion. that fluoridation in that state was unconstitutional and he ordered Alton, and all of the state of lllinois to stop fluoridatrn. He wasn't a Judge of the Supreme Court of that me. so the decision has been appealed, and we have no idea when the final result of that appeal will be available. " doesn't really change anything of the substance of his decision. and he heard extensive evidence on both sides. This was the second case in the United Mates, before that in 1978 there was the Would you agree that ttro-n-unter" have maintained a lower - this year than last. and how does that affect your approach? _ - _ _ --- So far they've maintained a surprisingly low profile this year but I don't think that we shouhht't expect any opposition, I know that there are people for ftuoridation. Dr. Byers tras been quoted " saying that he probably will not be involved in another campaign but l'm sure there are others who will take his place. so I'm not feeling overly-secure about the fact that so far there hasn't been any organized opposition. In the recent past, there has been newspaper reports in cities like Toronto citing alarm due to the lack of mgoridatior, because of short supply. Obviously you don"t feet that alarm is justified? No. in fact I wish there would be a total shortage of the fluoride, I think people are far better off without it. One thing that can be a problem is if there is no fluoride added to cities like Toronto, 1 know that there are dentists and doctors who recommend to their patients and children who are under their care that their parents give them fluoride tablets as’a supplement. Plow when the city starts fluoridation again the parents may not stop the t1uoride supplements or they may not be aware the city is starting the fluoride treatments again so the children would be getting double dosage which is definitely harmful. plebiscite He in “an: favor? We haven't decided too much about that yet, probably we will be inactive for a while. I think all of us are quite exhausted already, and will be even more so after the vote. We're expecting a few strenuous weeks ahead of us. Then as far as continuing, I think we'll probably continue in a low-key way informing people in Ontario about fluoridation but there aren't any plans that we have right now for that. That's Very hard to say what I think they will do. I think that if present council, the majority of present council members stay, they would be losing a lot of credibility because so far they've always been saying ‘well. you lost the vote, you should be satisfied with it', but if we win the vote I think they should be consistent and say they should be satisfied with what the people want. Any other messages you’d like to pass on about your campaign? __- _ A _ _ - Conversely. what would he your role should the vote remain the some, out] not in your farore, - What do you realistically feel are your chances ol reversing last year} results? 7 _ _ _ --- I feel very good about it, I think there are significant things that have come to light after the vote, and I think that since it will be in conjunction with the municipal election it is in our favor because there are more polling stations' and more people who might possibly go out to vote. I feel very good about it. Should the results he In your favor. do you anticipate any movement on behalf of the 'mAhrortdat1mrists to regain the supply of llaorldeln ogr not"? --. _ - I think then we’ll Just take a wait-and-see attitude, we'il continue to inform people, and we'll still be there, but we'll Just let it rest for a while. Only that I'm very much Impressed by the way support has grown around this issue. and I've met very many sincere people who've been very helpful and have put a lot of work and a lot of time and effort into the fluoridation issue. They feel very strongly about it and I would feel a real pity if their work were for nothing. What will be the soeieiv's role it is, results of the ..-PME tt