Audio File #1: Lisa McDonald 0:01 Hello, my name is Lisa Gaines McDonald and I'm being interviewed by my son, Loran Gaines McDonald. We moved here the winter of 1992. We moved here from the suburbs of Minneapolis, Minnesota. And the reason that we relocated relocated to Illinois is because my husband got a job here in the toy industry, and he was working out in Wheeling. And part of the reasons that we moved to this area was basically because I was in the process of looking for a job and I wanted easy access to the freeways, public transportation, and because I had two children, I wanted to make sure that it was a good school district and the Avoca school district fit the bill. Audio File #2: Loran Gaines McDonald 0:03 So you decided to move here because of the school system and the ease of transportation for wherever your potential job was going to be. Were there any other communities you were thinking about living in? Lisa McDonald 0:15 Oh, my dream communities were both Evanston and Oak Park, but because I didn't get a job in that area it was too long a commute for Ray, my husband, and both Oak Park and Evanston, Evanston had much higher taxes than Wilmette, West Wilmette in terms of value for the money if you get a nice house in a good area. Loran Gaines McDonald 0:42 What's the biggest difference from the suburbs of Minnesota where you came from versus Wilmette in the suburbs outside of Chicago. Lisa McDonald 0:53 We lived in Minnetonka, so we basically lived in a wooded area. The houses were of mixed age. We had built our house, which was passive solar in 1984-- 83/84. And so it was in a wooded area. It was designed, I think. It was open land, a lot of open land, a lot of woods. And I found it easy, easier to meet people and I also found a sort of different work ethic. In Minnesota, most people did, a lot of people did their own yards. But when you came here, most people had someone else do their yards. Also, you had much better access to public transportation to get into the city in Chicago. And Chicago was a much larger ethnic area, more diverse. And looking at the metro area, or Evanston, which is the nearest largest suburban area had a much larger African American population than Minneapolis had at that time. So there was access to a lot of cultural things that I enjoy. Loran Gaines McDonald 2:11 How was Wilmette changed since you first lived here? Lisa McDonald 2:13 My sons have grown older. I'm now a widow. There's a public transportation is not as accessible because of fewer people using it except for Loyola. Loyola High School has expanded, continues to expand. It's in my backyard. Everything else is pretty much the same. We've had a lot of transition in the neighborhood as younger families come in. Loran Gaines McDonald 2:48 Do you? Have you seen any similarities between the younger families that have come in and when you moved in? Lisa McDonald 2:55 Yeah, I think in fact, one of them, one of the family stopped by two days ago to introduce themselves and to see if it was room for if I wanted to participate in a block party. So I think that people come to this area based on the school district, the perceptions of safety, access to facilities because during COVID I found out how much stuff really was close to me if I look within a three block walk I can go to hit Northfield, hit the Mariano's, hit walking paths, hit the post office, hit the bank and hit Walgreens. Either way, Loran Gaines McDonald 3:40 What is your favorite part about living in Wilmette? Lisa McDonald 3:46 My favorite part about living in Wilmette is that if you put yourself out there you can, you are accepted. I know one of the things when we first moved here I was a room mom and I was active in your, you and your brother's school. And that was a good way to meet people. And I found people warm. Later I interviewed to be in a trustee for the Wilmette Public Library. And because there was a vacant position and been doing that for about 11 years, and just found it open to a lot of things. The other thing that sort of introduced me to the Chicago area was there used to be at the New Trier West, which was a community center but it's now taken back as the ninth grade only campus. There was a class called that I took called the theater, Theater in Chicago. And after the introduction, we ended up going to a theater every week for about three months. And that was just a wonderful orientation to what Chicago had to offer. Audio File #3: Loran Gaines McDonald 0:00 Got a sample question? Lisa McDonald 0:02 So Loran, tell me a little bit about what your experience was like. You, you were born in California. You went through fifth grade, up to fifth grade in Plymouth Minnetonka area. And then when we were in fifth grade, you moved here to Wilmette and went to Avoca. Initially. And then I think you were in Marie Murphy Junior High thereafter. What was that experience like? Loran Gaines McDonald 0:34 Well, I don't really remember California. I remember enjoying us growing up in, in the suburbs of Minnesota and the Minnetonka was that area. I think moving here at first, I didn't want to move, because I just kind of had my life set up in, in Minnesota and was about to go into junior high with the friends I'd established there. But then moving here, and to the Avoca district. You know, the people were pretty friendly. And I think I felt like it was a pretty easy transition. I like playing sports. and so I was able, I think the first year I moved here, I played baseball through the Wilmette Park District and the Wilmette Baseball Association, and actually was an umpire for 20 years after that. So you know, I think that was a that was a generally a positive memory. But yeah, I think the transition was was pretty easy for me moving, moving before high school, and it is a friendly community. So that, that helped too. Lisa McDonald 1:46 One of the things that's always the fly on the wall is you're African American. And I always wonder, and I'm African American. What's it like growing up in a -- well, it's a predominantly white community? Loran Gaines McDonald 1:59 Well, yeah, but I mean, growing up in Minnesota is also a predominantly white community. Wilmette is also predominantly white community, I went to New Trier as well. And that's predominantly white, and I guess, Asian community there. And then, you know, college is a little bit more diversity. But after that I kind of went to work in corporate America, and that's a predominantly white community, too. So it's kind of something that's been there my entire life. I mean, it's hard to, you know, to have certain thoughts about it, when, when it's kind of what you always see, you know, of course, the thing could be, it would have been nice to have a little bit more diversity growing up somewhere, like an Evanston or an Oak Park. But, you know, at the same time, you know, as a fifth grader, it's kind of beyond your control. So, yeah, I mean, it can be kind of difficult because you, you do kind of stand out, but you also, you know, it also kind of prepared you for a world where you might always stand up. Lisa McDonald 3:06 Okay, now, I often wonder if I made a mistake, especially with the incident out at Golf Mill regarding the hat, where they wanted to accuse you of stealing the hat that you were looking at when your brother came and got me, as well as the incident when you were doing Safe Rides? Loran Gaines McDonald 3:25 Well, yeah, well, the the incident with the hat didn't take place in Wilmette. But it did take place in the, you know, Chicago suburbs. But that was a case where it was, I guess, an over-enthusiastic security guard accused me of shoplifting when I was looking at hats to purchase, you know, which is something that, that I don't think I'm alone in experiencing that. And then, then the situation in Wilmette was actually very disheartening. When I was a senior in high school, I participated in Safe Rides, which is, you know, a program run by this, I think it's, I don't remember who was run by but it just through New Trier, where you are a designated driver for kids that that aren't sober to kind of prevent drunk driving or, or other incidents and so that they normally lasts till about, I believe, one or two in the morning. So I was coming, I was leaving the, the main place where we were the dispatch center was for Safe Rides, and, you know, went to a convenience store to, to get think it was probably a chocolate milk or something, something wholesome like that. And a police officer stopped me, you know, questioned where I was going. I explained that I live here and I'm headed home, and then followed me for about half my ride home. You know, during that time, you know, I played sports. I was the president of the student body. So I was really involved in the school and you know it's one of the, one of the first times where you know you, you kind of feel like you, you don't belong in your community by the people that are supposed to look out for you. So I think the next day I wrote a letter to the the police and you know, a week or two later they called back and and apologized which was which was nice to hear. But yeah, you know, it's kind of a, it's definitely a distinct memory of living in Wilmette. Lisa McDonald 5:31 Since you no longer live in Wilmette what changes have you noticed? Cause after you finished college you been gone for some time. Loran Gaines McDonald 5:39 Yeah. You know, when I finished college, I live in Chicago now and I used to work just north of Wilmette so I go to Wilmette, you know, fairly often. In our neighborhood the west side of Wilmette and I'm sure it's, it's you see the same thing in the east is and it's more in the block over where a lot of houses were have been torn down and have been replaced by larger houses you know. New Triern West is back open for freshmen only which would have been a lot easier you know, living in one of the furthest points of the district going to New Trier whereas you know, you didn't have to take two buses to, to get home if you stayed after school. I haven't spent much time in downtown Wilmette but that actually kind of you know looks fairly similar or what similar to what was like you know, the 20 plus years that that since we've since we moved here, well 30 now but Lisa McDonald 6:44 One of the reasons I liked Wilmette was the perception of safety and the fact that you all could ride your bikes or rode the bus to camp and you all were pretty self sufficient kids. Was safety ever a concern for you? Loran Gaines McDonald 7:03 No, um, you know, there have been incidents, you know, in Wilmette concerning safety, but none when we were a child and they seem to be isolated one offs that weren't random acts of violence. But I never felt unsafe living in Wilmette or going to the, biking to the pool or going to the beach or going to Irvings. Lisa McDonald 7:30 What's your fondest memory of Wilmette? Loran Gaines McDonald 7:36 I really liked going to the, the July 3rd Fireworks. That was probably one of my that's one of my favorite things to do just growing up in Wilmette. Lisa McDonald 7:45 Okay. And what do you wish, what's your wish for Wilmette on this one hundred and fiftieth anniversary? What improvements might you want to see? If any. Loran Gaines McDonald 7:58 Hmm. I think it'd be nice for Wilmette to be more diverse. You know, I don't live here anymore. So I'm not sure if that's really the case. I kind of doubt it. But. [laughter and some indistinguishable word] But I mean, I think that would be nice. You know, I, you know, I think the, the education here is really good. And that'd be nice to continue, you know, and, um, you know, it's, it's, I think it's a point of pride being from here to especially, you know, with, with the education and just kind of growing up, it's a nice place to grow up and and, you know, I'd like it to stay safe. You know, we've, you know, over the years have been, like I said random incidents or there's been focused incidents. I mean, you know, there was an issue with white supremacy in the late 90s, early, early 2000s, where, you know, the Church of the New Order was recruiting people and hopefully, you know, you don't see things like that. But yeah, I mean, I, I still think it's a nice place to live and I hope that it stays that way. Lisa McDonald 9:07 Thank you. Audio File #4: Lisa McDonald 0:02 What do you like about the neighborhood? Loran Gaines McDonald 0:05 Yeah, when we first moved here, I think one of the best things about the neighborhood that was that there were a lot of kids where we were all about the same age. Half loved playing sports and, but half the houses had basketball hoops. So we'd always play basketball or play football. We're on a cul de sac and some people would try to get to Lake Street from where we were so we would have to stop the games and we generally yell at them that this isn't a through this is a cul de sac you can't get through. But yeah, I think I think that was, that was, that made it easier to move here you know in grade school was was the fact that you know there were friendly kids and nice parents and and you know, our street was actually fairly diverse you know, with you know, we had the Ways down the street with the Kapors at the other end of the street and then we had a couple of Jewish families too so you know, that was the one of the first times really really experienced meeting anyone Jewish and that was that was pretty cool too. Lisa McDonald 1:17 Okay. Since that time one of the reasons we ended up in West Wilmette is because the real estate agent said that we would be more comfortable in West Wilmette. I don't know if that was racial profiling or not, but that's one of the things but probably also we couldn't afford East Wilmette. You get a lot more money room for your house in West Wilmette than in East Wilmette so that was another reason why we ended here. Audio File #5: Lisa McDonald 0:02 Since I've been in Wilmette I basically have, I do market research and I've worked out of my house. So that was the reason why both library has been wonderful both Northfield as well as the Wilmette Library have provided a wealth of research support for me. But also it's easy access to the city where sometimes I do a lot of my work or to the airport when I fly out. I guess I really appreciated Wilmette during COVID, because I realized I felt safe. There was so much stuff I could access by just walking in terms of walking trails up to the Botanical Gardens, or the reverse down through Skokie, as well as access to a lot of services. I feel blessed and I feel lucky. Loran Gaines McDonald 0:53 What type of services did you have access to? Lisa McDonald 0:55 You had the grocery store and the post office, you had the two grocery stores. We go by Eden's Plaza or up off of Willow that I could walk to. He had a drugstore at each of those locations and you had the Chase Bank up the street. But I think what I really enjoyed was right off of Illinois Happ Road, you've got a wonderful bicycle path that goes up and around and you can go so many different ways and just be in nature. Loran Gaines McDonald 1:28 So the bicycle path that goes through Northfield? [laughter and some indistinguishable words] Lisa McDonald 1:34 I like the one that goes through Northfield, but then I also like the one, the bike path that goes behind New Trier West. Loran Gaines McDonald 1:40 Okay. Lisa McDonald 1:41 Yeah. So both of those were sort of fun to walk. Loran Gaines McDonald 1:44 You get a lot of space too and you're not on top of each other like you're in the city. Lisa McDonald 1:49 Um, um. [words of assent] Loran Gaines McDonald 1:51 Did you ever see any neighbors outside during COVID? Or were you pretty isolated here? Lisa McDonald 1:58 I would speak but I always kept isolated and then on the walkabout sometimes I would run into people I knew from other places. But I never really felt isolated because my health club opened about three months after COVID which is in Skokie. Loran Gaines McDonald 2:17 Now your friends that aren't from Wilmette, what do they think about, about Wilmette when they come to visit you? Lisa McDonald 2:24 A lot of times when I'm in the city, I'll just tell people I'm in the north suburbs because people have --especially African Americans -- have a lot of perceptions about what goes on in the North Shore. I remember when I first moved here I had a cousin from Paducah, Kentucky who wanted to know was I gonna be okay up here, even though I'm probably far safer here than she is in the South Shore area. So a lot of times I wouldn't say I'm from Wilmette because that raises a bunch of assumptions and some speculations. I know when my book club comes up here they enjoy the house, they enjoy my art collection. It's easy to park, it's spacious, and it's quiet. Loran Gaines McDonald 3:12 What type of assumptions, perceptions do people typically make if you're from Wilmette? Lisa McDonald 3:18 I think they, when they think of Wilmette, I think they think of East Wilmette, not necessarily West Wilmette. Loran Gaines McDonald 3:28 So do they assume you have a house on the lake? Lisa McDonald 3:30 Maybe they assume you have an old house or a vintage house even though this house is old and vintage, but it's a tract built basically, during the war or right after the war and the house is about 50 years old. I think they know there are not a lot of Black people up here. So they probably are curious as to what your interests might be. When you live in a area where there are very few Blacks unless you go out and intentionally become involved or participate in organizations which I've done to Jack and Jill through the North Shore chapter of Links through my sorority Alpha Kappa Alpha. Initially I had you in an African American church, traditionally Black church, Second Baptists and then ended up at Unity. So I think there are a lot of assumptions that people make without really knowing what you do or what your interests are. Loran Gaines McDonald 4:33 Are there any positive assumptions that people make from being from Wilmette? Lisa McDonald 4:41 I think whites are probably more comfortable if they know that you're from Wilmette, but then they might think you can't relate to other African Americans because I do a lot of research. And most of the people I do research with are African American. because they like to match for a comfort level when they're doing research projects. And I don't think they just need to get to know you it depends. I don't know, there's assumption that you're not from Chicago. I know Evanston want you to be from Evanston too. And that you probably..I remember taking a bus on the south side and I was speaking to people when I first moved here, and someone says, Oh, you're not from here. So I guess it's just not necessarily North Shore but just not from Chicago too. Loran Gaines McDonald 5:31 Yeah, that's, that's true. I've been asked if I'm Jamaican, or if I'm African and kind of been brought up in a British school. And so I understand what you're saying with some of these incorrect assumptions about where you're from and your background. And sometimes, like, Black people aren't sure what to make of you if they've never met you before. Lisa McDonald 5:58 And my interests are quite eclectic. As are yours. Transcribed by https://otter.ai