PAUL LAFORET INTERVIEW

My name is Paul Maurice Edgar Laforet.

Can you tell me where and when you were born?

I was born in Sandwich East, Ontario which is now a part of Windsor on April 20, 1921.

What was it like growing up in Windsor during the 1920’s and 30’s?

Well, in the days of the 20’s and 30’s, of course, we were in the east end of Riverside. Riverside is now and has been amalgamated to Windsor, as you know. But we were in the east end and I guess you can call that the poor end. We had to struggle. My father worked at Ford’s in those days and we just lived in a small home. I had a brother and a sister and we had to share bedrooms and all that kind of stuff. We had outdoor facilities and sometimes running water and we didn’t get telephones until later on. So it was a nice small area and everybody knew everyone else. And there was a small Catholic school there that had eight grades - four grades in each room, two teachers.

What was the name of the school?

The name of the school was St. Theresa’s Separate School. It is not there anymore.

What street was it on?

It was on Eleanor Street. It’s about a mile east of Little River Road or Lauzon Road - in those areas. So we went to school there for eight years. We went from class to class. After you went through grade 4, you went to the big room and you sat in the 4 rows and went to 5, 6, 7, and 8 until you graduated from grade school. Then you went to high school. So from grade school, I went to high school in the center of Riverside to a place called St. Cecile’s High School which was a grade school but they had two years of high school there and it was split up - French and English, of course, and we were taught by the nuns. So I spent 2 years there. Then of course, the big graduation was to move into the city and go to school in Windsor and take the streetcars, busses or whatever the case may be - in those days it was streetcars. And I went to Windsor Vocational High School, which is on Giles Avenue, which is now closed. I took up tool and die making which my father was prior to that.

It eventually became Lowe Tech.

Mr. Lowe passed away and I was there for 3 years and just before I finished my classes, of course, the war came on. This would be the 1938, 39, 40 area.

You know the depression years in the 1930’s. How was your family impacted by the depression? And how was Windsor impacted by the depression?

Well, those days were kind of tough. We lived next door to my grandfather and grandmother who were very poor. And my father fortunately who had started at Fords in 1917 had a job and worked a few days here, there and everywhere. So with regards to the working that my father did, we were able to carry on. My mother was a homemaker and she kept things going and we had some pretty skimpy meals and we went without food sometimes but all in all it was cold. We were on the south side of Riverside Drive and the rich people from Detroit were all on the water side but we were close to the lake and if you wanted to swim in the summertime, you could, if you wanted to ice skate you could do that. So it was a struggle, transportation was a problem driving around. My father had an old touring car. We were cold.

There used to be a swimming pool around the area wasn’t there?

Yes. East Windsor Bathing Beach - quite a place - it was a beautiful place.

And didn’t they have a dock that you could jump off of?

Yes, they did Michael and a lot of people went there. They had wading pools and people dove into the river and they used to have beauty contests there and a good friend of mine got to be Miss East Windsor Beauty Queen.

You mentioned that your father worked at Ford’s Motor Company of Canada....

My dad worked for pretty close to 45 years and he ended up five year’s prior to his retirement becoming 65 and eligible for his retirement before the Ford plant closed and he moved to Oakville. So he became the first general foreman in the assembly line at the new Ford Oakville plant. He and my mother had to move from the homestead to Oakville. They were there for the last five years of their working days.

There was a huge transformation at Ford’s from the 1920’s. Compared to the 1950’s and 60’s, it was a dramatic change.

Yes. My father was a tool and die maker as I was but one of the big jobs that he had was being a general foreman on the final assembly when they used to assemble cars and subsequent to that, when the war started, they started building armoury cars or carriers - gun carriers - and he was in charge of that program.

They were sometimes known as universal carriers.

Yes they were.

Did your mother work at all?

No. She took care of everyone.

Any brothers and sisters?

I have one brother who lives around the corner from here as a matter of fact and his name is Clarence and he is a widower. He lost his wife just last year - his third wife. And I have a sister on Rossini and her name is Marguerite McCartney and she lost her husband about 9 year’s ago. So there’s just my brother and sister and my brother is 4 year’s older than I am and my sister is 4 year’s younger than I am.

When you were growing up, what was some of your favorite past times and hobbies?

I played an awful lot of baseball. I was a poor athlete but I played a lot of baseball with a lot of organizations both in the Riverside area and in the city. One of the biggest things that I remember in playing baseball was I joined a team and we used to play at Wigle Park - a beautiful park. And even though there were people in the stands, what I always remember is it was completely surrounded with fences and a real nice atmosphere. But what I remember most was the day it showered. We never knew what showers were!!

During the 1930’s, there were reports of trouble. Did you pay any attention?

Not really. In the 30’s I was only 9 or 10 year’s old.

And what was your reaction when you heard Canada was at war?

Of course at that point, I was at Windsor Vocational School when the war started and I think I was there from 37, 38, 39 and, war started in 1939. All my friends started to leave. I left the school and found a job at a place called Truscon Steel and that didn’t materialize but my brother had a good job at Bendix Eclipse and he got me a job there and worked on production and I worked on production line making tracer bullets. I worked in tooling for quite some time and I had a friend who wanted me to transfer from Bendix to a place called Dominion Forge because he was working there. So I made an application, went there, had the medical, was given all my equipment for safety, glasses, shoes, etc. and I was told to report the following morning at 7:00 a.m. Well when I returned there, there was a notice that said “report to the general manager immediately - don’t start work.” I walked into his office, he took my glasses, my shoes, and my overalls and said you have a job at Bendix Eclipse and according to the rules of the Canadian government, you cannot have 2 jobs during wartime so you are going back to Bendix, which I did. So I finished my term there. I thought I have to try and work my way into Fords. I made application, went through all the medicals, ready to go out into the plant and just as I was walking out the door of all things, the fellow who was letting me out the door said “how old are you?” I said I am 19 and he said you are not old enough to work in the plant. You will have to come back when you are 20. I hadn’t quit my job at Bendix. I was doing this on the side. So I went back to Bendix and never said anything but on the twentieth of April 1941, I left Bendix and went over to Fords and started there from them on.

So how much were you making?

I was making 35 cents an hour straight time, 12 hours a day and we worked 8-hours Saturday and Sunday. When I went to Fords, I started at 75 cents an hour. I hadn’t been there too long when the foreman came to me and said “Paul I got good news for you. Starting tomorrow, you are going to make $1.00 an hour. So I spent some time there. So I was there for almost a year when I knew all my friends and buddies were going to war and I thought Paul why don’t you join the service. So I took it upon myself to go to the recruiting centre on Ouellette Avenue and signed up to join the Royal Canadian Air Force.

Was that in the Canada Building?

Yes and I think the fellow that was in charge at the time was Adamac. He eventually became a clerk for the city of Windsor.

Yes....John Adamac

So I went back to the plant and told them that I had joined the Canadian Air Force.

Any reason why you chose the Air Force?

Not really. I knew I wasn’t too keen on being in the Army and going around in the mud holes that would not be for me. And I was a poor sailor. I could get seasick so I thought I had better stay away from the Navy so I went to the Air Force. So I had been in the plant for about a year when I told them that I was going to join the Air Force. Being a tradesman, there was always the possibility that if you were tradesman during the war you could get a deferment. You did not have to go to war as long as you stayed at the same place, on the same job and you didn’t get drafted. I was offered that. My father came over from the assembly plant to where I was working and he and my foreman wondered if I should pick up a deferment instead of going to the Air Force. Well after thinking about it, I turned my dad down and I often think maybe I did the wrong thing. I certainly think along those lines that if my children do what I did to my dad...it would not be the best thing. But, in any case, I left for the Air Force. Backtracking for a minute, several of the people who I worked with at that time, took the deferment and were still in the dirty plant doing the same work that they had done prior to my return after 3 ½ years.

We went to Hamilton and the reason we went to Hamilton was they called that a pre-enlistment school for three months. At the beginning of the war, people who went into aircrew had to have a college education or university to qualify for any aircrew position and, of course, they picked up all the college and university graduates and trained and sent them overseas. Many got popped off. So they continued to lower the level for education that they would accept for aircrew. Until they got down to the point where they were taking people but hadn’t even finished grade 13 and I was one of those. So in that situation they sent us to a pre-enlistment school in Hamilton and there we took subjects of mathematics, celestial, English and several tough subjects and we graduated from there. We were sent to Toronto.

And how long were you in Hamilton?

In Hamilton for 3 months - we only carried a badge indicating we were students in the Air Force. And we went to school 5 days a week and we boarded in homes. We went to Toronto, to the Manning Depot and we did all our basic training there. And then we were to be sent out to an airdrome to act on what they called a patrol - like a guard but we didn’t do that. The group that we were with fortunately got on to a precision squadron in which there were 3 flights of strenuous marching and strenuous training and we put on marching exhibits all over Ontario. We went out selling victory bonds. But we were there for 3 months. So we were really cushy. We had our own rifles and we were in our own section and we were in a class of our own with 5,ooo - 6,000 people at Manning Depot. But nevertheless, we finished that and then we were posted to initial training schools and I was posted to #1 initial training school, which was in North Toronto - 1107 Avenue Road - I remember that.

So is it east of Young Street?

I think just west. It used to be a rich people’s club and we were in the barns where they had the horses. Wherever there was a stall, there was a bed and so we were there and that was tough training. We did a lot of work.

What kind of training were you put in?

Navigation, just about anything you could think of and we did such tests as in which they reduced the amount of oxygen to see if your ears would stand it...that sort of thing and we, of course, had received a lot of training with regards to marching - that part came easy. So we were there for, I think 2 - 2 ½ months then we were posted to stations depending on your marks at initial training school. If your marks were high, you had an opportunity to take a choice of which elementary flying school you wanted. There were 3 choices: Windsor, St. Catharines and Thunder Bay. St Catharines was filled up with people with higher marks. Windsor was filled up with people with higher marks. So I ended up in Thunder Bay with cold weather Flying Tiger Moths.

That’s a long way away isn’t it?

A long way. It was cold and, of course, in those days traveling by train - the trains were in bad shape with potbelly stoves in the back of the thing. Sometimes it was on and sometimes the water came through the ceiling. So that was pretty wicked.

And at that time so few people lived in N. Ontario?

Right. Very very few of them.

When you say Thunder Bay, was it closer to Ft. William or Port Arthur?

We used to call it Fort William and, of course, Fort William and Port Arthur ran into each other. Right next door to the airport. There was a foundry or manufacturing facility and they were making hurricanes. So every once in awhile they would bring the aircraft out and fly it away and get this big propeller going and we are in this little tiger moth.

So how long were you at Thunder Bay?

I was not there very long because I was not very good as a pilot. The airport was not big enough for me to get the plane down. As I approached the airport, I was looking at the fence at the far side and I did that several times and the instructor said I don’t think you will make a very good pilot. Maybe you should start thinking about doing something else. So that’s what they called me - washed out.

Were you kind of disappointed?

Yes I was disappointed because I had left several of my friends that I had been with in Windsor, Hamilton, Toronto and Thunder Bay and all of a sudden, all these guys I had been with for so long - I had to leave them. So at that point, we were in what they called the central division, which had its Manning Depot in Brandon, Manitoba. There’s one in Toronto and one in Brandon.

When you went to Brandon, what year was this?

This would be, I don’t know 1941 - no probably early 1943 or wintertime 1942 I think. So I was there not too long and I got a posting at Portage la Prairie? As a navigator and that was a nice station. It was cold. We were flying Anson and they were cold. So we did navigation school there - very difficult classes - really hard - 7-day operations and we did everything. We flew. We used to fly long distance trips at that time past Winnipeg into N. Dakota and back around in a triangle and back. And I was there for 8 or 9 months I guess when they decided they had too many people for navigation and they cut the classes. So those of us who had poorer marks than others were washed out again. So here I was back on my way to Brandon wondering what was going to happen. I hadn’t been there too long when I got a posting to a place way up north in Manitoba. And that was a bombing and gunnery school. I was going to be in training for a bomb aimer. So I went through the bomb training part of it and you had to have some navigation experience and you did some more navigating but you got into the business of dropping bombs on pre-set targets. So we did that. In addition to that, we got to do some gunnery by flying in the tail and shooting pulled by a Lysander. So you would set your sights on it and shoot colored bullets into this drogue. You can follow me. A drogue was a long canvas white sleeve pulled by a Lysander and as the bullets from our plane went through, we got 2 colors because there were 2 students. We had red and blue. So that view hit the target and it went through the canvas and it was a red bullet. Then of course there would be a red circle in the drogue and then after we did our exercise the pilot would drop that drogue at the airport and then we would come in and land beyond that and then the instructors would count the number of reds and the number of blues as opposed to the number of rounds that we fired as to how qualified we were as gunners. By the same token, when we dropped bombs, they would sight the dropping of those bombs. We had a target sight up in different areas and we had 2 people - one person at this site and one other person on that site with similar equipment. I never hit a target at all. So at this point you were being analyzed for how accurate you were with bombs and how accurate you were with a gun. So after we finished that class, we graduated - thank God I graduated from somewhere!!!!

By the way, when you were taking these classes, what did you do in your spare time?

We chased the women! There was a lot of recreation. We used to make a lot of trips. When we were out west, of course, we always headed for Winnipeg if we had a weekend off. They treated air people and service people very well because the Eaton stores had a great big facility behind their store for entertaining the troops and there were dances and meals and everybody went there and that’s where we went. Every time we had a chance we headed to Winnipeg.

What kind of uniforms did you have?

We had 2 sets - summer and a winter uniform. Dark blue in the winter and a light tan in the summer.

Was there someone on base who would wash the clothes?

You had to get your own laundry done by the center. How I couldn’t tell you. There was a cleaning outfit. They were excellent.

Did you write any letters home?

Yes.

There must have been a certain amount of homesickness for your friends and family....

Yes. My mother was quite religious and they tell me that my mother used to get on the streetcar and transfer to 2 or 3 streetcars and go to Sacred Heart Church and sit and pray for me by the hour. So here’s my mother going through all of this situation and all of this excellent work to get to church which was difficult in those days and here I am over in Manitoba having a good time. So those are the kind of things that I remember very vividly.

What was your father’s reaction?

We were poor and when graduation time came after I left Paulson, we did more navigation at that point. My father wanted to come to the graduation. You can imagine my poor father with a couple of dollars in his pocket wanting to get on a train to Toronto to go out west in the middle of the winter because that was January 13, 1944 that I graduated. And I thought “Oh my God. I can’t have my dad come all the way out here to see that”. So that was the reaction in answer to your question to how did my dad feel. I guess at that point he was pretty proud. So we graduated, got our wings, I got commission. The pilot officer was the first commission rank in the Air Force - lowest commission rank. If you didn’t get a commission, then you were a sergeant. So we had a large class and at that point we headed back East. Some of the people were sent home because they were being posted overseas because the postings were given to you at that time.

How much money were you making?

When we were flying, we were making $1.75 a day because when we enlisted, we were making $1.30. So when we were flying and we had to have so many hours a month. When I got my commission, I was making $210 a month. Of course, all the way down through, even though you were getting $1.30, everything was supplied and we always had money in our pocket. So we graduated. Some got posted overseas, some stayed in Canada and I stayed in Canada because they wanted some instructors, bombing instructors. So I guess according to the marks that we had plus I had all of this pilot experience, navigator experience and I had gunnery experience. So I was chosen as an instructor and I think that appears in the video that I did with Eric. So those that were going overseas were sent home on leave prior to being shipped overseas, those of us who stayed as instructors and they were selected throughout the country were sent to a place called Mountain view which is a bombing and gunnery school just south of Trenton, Ontario. We were there for one month and we got our uniforms. We were going around dressed up as officers. We thought we were something but we were just posted. Again a posting came up according to your marks where do you want to go? Paul you are second on the list...where is your choice? We have openings here, there, and everywhere across Canada and I chose Fingal, which is 12 miles south of St. Thomas - close to home. So a month after January 13, 1944 when I graduated, one month in Mountain view, I am on staff at Fingal. We taught students about bombs. The gunnery was taught by the gunnery section but I enjoyed that. It was good easy living. We did a lot of flying and spent a lot of time over in London, St. Thomas, Port Stanley. Until 1945 when the station closed. They were cutting back in the British Commonwealth and they posted us overseas. I was to report to Toronto.

Were you happy about that?

Yes because there again I wanted to do some flying. I hadn’t done any. I just had a very good life and I thought well God, you got to do something so why not go overseas and see what you can do. And, of course, we got on in March 1945 and there were still blackouts. No Bombing of England. We were up the south coast. We used to see the aircraft - the British and the Canadians going back and forth again over our heads every day. We were there for maybe 2 months and we got posted to a place in Wales. They didn’t need any aircrew because it was all winding down. We didn’t know it was that close to winding down. So rather than get sent to an air station, we were posted to a commando course. I was in Wales when the war ended in 1945. At this point I thought in my own mind that I had not really done anything in this war other than spend money. I thought I had better do something. When an order came out and said anyone interested in volunteering for the Pacific Theatre, if you could just go forward. Well several of us did including myself. So we worked for the most part discharging Canadians and we were reallocated to the Pacific. At that point we had to come back home to be trained for the Pacific theatre. That gives priority which meant that I had left Canada and gone to the United Kingdom and came back to Canada in 3 ½ months. Well some of them were gone for 5 - 6 years. So I had a really guilty conscious.

And as you approach the stations here back in Canada, the train pulled into Toronto and thousands of people are cheering for the veterans coming back. And I was never so embarrassed in all my life. So they gave us 2 week’s leave and told us to report back for training. And while we were on leave, they had a bomb drop in Japan and that was the end of the Japanese war. So we had another notice to report to be discharged.

So you were in Toronto for two week’s was it?

We were only there for just a stopover.

When you heard the news, you must have been disappointed...

Those that had gone overseas with us were last over. They were the last to come back. They were overseas on vacation in England, Scotland, and Ireland. They were there until December and, of course, I had worked at Fords and the ruling by the Canadian government was that if you joined the service from the job, that job was guaranteed to you when you came back. Same job. So I did go back to Fords and told them that I was available.

Just before you came back to Fords, was it exciting with the hundreds of people showing up and with your family?

Well that’s not really the way it worked out. There was a lot of activity here when we pulled in to Windsor because we didn’t know when we approached this area. There were cars everywhere. The Ford strike was on and I didn’t know that. So when I reported for work, I walked in the plant at 7:30 a.m. and shook hands with a few people and went to work. I wasn’t on the job for 2 hours and everybody left. That’s when I found out we were on strike, and because I was a member of the union, I had to leave the plant. I was on strike for 99 days and so I applied for benefits from the veterans, which they used to do for people who didn’t have a job to return to. So I made application and appeared before a committee and told them I had no money coming in and they said sorry Paul - you are on strike. You are an employee of Ford Motor Company and you are on strike. Well I appealed it 3 times. So when the strike was over, I went back to the job and I was a machine operator and at that time there were 900 toolmakers and we eventually moved to a new office that encompassed all of the satellite areas. And I was there for; I guess a short time when I was offered a position as a foreman. So I became a production foreman. So we manufactured and supplied parts to the engine assembly. So I was supervisor in the value department for a while and then transferred to the new plant and I was eventually appointed general foreman in that department. I did that for quite some time until there was a cutback and I was cut back to a foreman and I didn’t mind that because they didn’t cut my wages.

I really wanted to go into the quality control department so I went as a foreman and I eventually was a general foreman and eventually was made a superintendent so I had the manufacturing, assembly and testing...

And your dad was still working too?

My dad retired in 1959 I think. He had retired about 5 years when I became foreman. He was the first person to retire. He always wanted to be the number one seniority man in Canada. He was # eleven and he retired when he was 65. And so anyway that got me to the quality control department as a superintendent, which I did for 7 years and I retired in 1979.

And how did you meet your wife by the way?

My wife was overseas with a lady named Pat during the war and she was in the six group headquarters in England. She worked with Pat Madison who came from Windsor and was a very good friend. Pat introduced my wife to her boyfriend who was in the army when he came to visit in England. His name was Gerry. As it turned out, Jerry, of course, was a boyfriend of mine from the time I was a young guy. Eventually they got married and my wife was invited to the wedding and I knowing Jerry and my wife knowing Pat we were invited to the wedding and I met my wife at their wedding. And we were married in 1949.

And have been happily married ever since....

Yep. My wife had a very good record and a very interesting job overseas. She worked in #6 bomber group headquarters where they documented the crews.

And where was your wife born?

She was born in Petrolia, Ontario outside of Sarnia, Ontario.

And how long was she overseas in England?

She was there for nearly 2 years. She has more medals than I have.

So she would have been there roughly from 1943 - 1945?

Yes, the war was over May 8, 1945 and that was her birthday.

Interesting way to remember the end of the war....

Right.

So what was the most memorable experience that you had with the military? Anything that comes to mind either good or bad?

I guess you have to go back and think about the flying experience. I can remember one flight in Paulson where we were going on a bombing mission. Of course the meteorology section indicated where it was okay and he was absolutely wrong because we no sooner headed down the runway and the aircraft was completely covered in ice. And we couldn’t see where we were going. How the pilot made a turn and came back and hit the runway I will never know - with his head out the window.... he hit the runway and we speeded off the end of the runway. Another aircraft came in and just missed us. You kind of remember that.

And at Fingal, I had 2 different experiences. Certainly my experiences as compared to true veterans had to do with aircraft on fire. I can remember one time the aircraft caught fire and you could see the yellow plane turning black. But we were too close to the ground to jump so we had to work our way around and he made a steep turn and brought that wing around real quick. And it put the fire out fortunately so that was pretty lucky. Another time we were in a similar situation. We weren’t too far off the runway when we through a signal out saying we were on fire. Well you often see this on TV and in pictures but to come in and see yourself coming down a runway on to an airdrome and have a fire truck and an ambulance going alone with you waiting to see what’s going to happen. That was quite the thrill and I never forgot that.